Seasons of Love — Idol Gives Back

Wednesday, April 9, 2008, 10:24 PM | American Idol 7

American Idol Season of Love

The American Idol Top 8 sing “Seasons of Love” from “Rent” a Broadway musical about HIV/AIDS.

Think about that when you listen to the finale song “Shout to the Lord” which is one of the anthems of the born-again movement in the world — a movement which does not support contraception and is intolerant towards gays and people with HIV/AIDS.

I am so offended. I am so angry. American Idol should have known better and not inject religious undertones to their annual fund-raiser. Saving children in Africa and New Orleans has nothing to do with the Christian god. What were they thinking? Bah!

[Note: (3:30 AM) There's a long discussion now in the comments, feel free to jump in, but before you do... I have nothing against Christians individually so if this is inflammatory, I apologize, I am just very angry (at least when I wrote this, not anymore after reading your comments). These are the teachings I was exposed to when I was involved in a non-denominational born-again Christian church for a full year which was directly responsible for the lowest point in my life. The story is a bit too personal, but I mention it so it is clear that I am not just ranting out of the blue -- in a war of "ideas". Things happened to me in the name of god, and yes "Shout to the Lord" was one of their favorite songs. It's apparently a sub-conscious trigger. I could go on about all the hypocrisy I witnessed, but hey, that's not my thing. But thanks for reminding me that not all Christians are the same. You probably don't want to get involved with the Christians I've been exposed to. You are the Christians I should have been exposed to. Okay, that's it... I love you all!]

“Shout to the Lord” MP3 on iTunes (hehehe…)

Video clip:

208 Comments for Seasons of Love — Idol Gives Back

1

good observation, rickey. i wonder how many people they’ve affected/offended. you would think a show like this would have thought through it better.

steamez on April 9, 2008 at 10:27 pm
2

for me, as a Christian, I enjoyed it. Its one of my favorite songs.
but i KNEW that a lot of people would be offended by it. I was actually shocked when I learned they would be singing it. so…i think it was not a smart move by them to have the song played on Idol Gives Back

Emily Patricia on April 9, 2008 at 10:29 pm
3

I’m Christian and I’m offended by that song. I think it’s just not PC.

silverfangs on April 9, 2008 at 10:29 pm
4

Oh, please Rickey. At least it sends out a good inspirational message which is basically the whole point of the special of American Idol. I thought that this was one of the best group songs ever! I loved it!

kyo2590 on April 9, 2008 at 10:30 pm
5

*Sigh* It’s so hard to be PC these days. Rickey, ITA with you…it was downright insulting.

Violet on April 9, 2008 at 10:31 pm
6

“*Sigh* It’s so hard to be PC these days. Rickey, ITA with you…it was downright insulting.”

I couldn’t agree more with you Violet!

kyo2590 on April 9, 2008 at 10:32 pm
7

I hear you RICKEY, I hear you. We can just take solace in the fact that I thought Seasons of Love sounded great, and I will most likely buy it off iTunes, and the finale didn’t sound too good, and I won’t be buying it.

richie on April 9, 2008 at 10:32 pm
8

Yeah. What WERE they thinking? Someone didn’t do the research behind this song for 1 of the most important evenings of AI.:(

aprylette on April 9, 2008 at 10:35 pm
9

why is the key to “season of love” is so low at first?

anyway… archie sounded great with the power note. such control.

take notes, carly!

heavyblow on April 9, 2008 at 10:35 pm
10

As a Christian, I was a little worried when I heard them singing it because, as a Christian, it sometimes bugs me a bit when people sing Christian songs as a means for inspiration without believing what they are saying.

That aside, your assumptions and lumping Christians into one giant stereotype was also a bit offensive to me. I’ve been following this site for years, and always enjoyed it though I’ve not been vocal.

I know you’re not into religion, but if you believe in people all getting along and do not want to perpetuate intolerance, please keep an open mind as I hope I do towards people who do not share my beliefs.

In other news: We performed Seasons of Love when I was in high school, and that song always brings back lots of memories. I starred in a small production of “Quilt” in my teens, and while there aren’t a lot of musicals about AIDS, it is an issue that needs attention. One of my best friend’s biggest dreams is to go to Africa and help people there.

All in all, though, I do agree with Rickey’s earlier post about giving to these individual organizations whenever, not just when stars tell you to.

Evergreen on April 9, 2008 at 10:36 pm
11

Thanks for pointing that out, Rickey. Couldn’t agree more – it is so true. Seasons of Love – good song choice, not that great of a performance. Shout to the Lord – worst. idol. song choice. ever.

-ewgs
http://www.xanga.com/ewgs
idol judging

ewgs on April 9, 2008 at 10:37 pm
12

well they did change the song a bit…they sang ‘my shepherd’ instead of ‘my jesus’. and to #3 why does a christian need to be PC…..Jesus certainly was not PC…anyways, i can see this thread getting a bit ugly.

krighton on April 9, 2008 at 10:37 pm
13

Not all Christians are intolerant. I loved both songs.

deb-deb on April 9, 2008 at 10:38 pm
14

I was not aware of that Rickey, thanks. As a Mother of 3 girls who adore AI I want to ask if anyone else was offended with the profanity and innuendo that was injected into the show tonight? I’m already mad, then they end it the way they did! Really pisses me off!

Sweet Melissa on April 9, 2008 at 10:39 pm
15

Maybe one of the big sponsors/donors was a Christian movement and they requested that song?

dancewarrior on April 9, 2008 at 10:41 pm
16

Putting religion aside, I think this is the best group song ever.
Archuleta did wonders but once again forgot the lyrics.

GemNikki on April 9, 2008 at 10:41 pm
17

Evergreen: When the official stand of the born-again Christian churches change on gays, people with HIV/AIDS and contraception, then you can call me out. I don’t think all Christians are intolerant, but the last time I checked, the church itself considers gays an abomination and HIV/AIDS as “god’s punishment”.

I’m just very angry right now. That was such a poor song to sing, and for them to sing “Seasons of Love” almost oblivious to where it originated just makes it worse.

Rickey on April 9, 2008 at 10:42 pm
18

i cried when archie did collins solo

S.C.A on April 9, 2008 at 10:43 pm
19

i’m just annoyed.. of course as an atheist, i’m usually annoyed at all the christianity shoved down my throat in my daily life.. but i’m probably more annoyed that kristy’s(?) mic was turned up way too loud in the beginning of the song.. did anyone else notice that? or was she just singing too loud?

flipchilln on April 9, 2008 at 10:44 pm
20

Well said, 10.

Rickey, I’m not sure this is the place for this kind of debate. There are going to be misconceptions thrown all over the place by both “sides,” and I don’t see the good that’s going to come from it.

Preston on April 9, 2008 at 10:45 pm
21

Rickey, not all Christians are against gay marriage. I myself am straight & a Christian and strongly support gay marriage.

kyo2590 on April 9, 2008 at 10:45 pm
22

#18, as a christian i’ll agree with your athiest view that Kristy’s mic was way way WAY too loud..plus she cocked her head a bit funny to get more sound out…..not good at all.

krighton on April 9, 2008 at 10:46 pm
23

I’m a Christian and I don’t think it was un-PC. Whoa! Ya think? Well, this is why I think it isn’t: If idol is here to be PC, then they’ll hold out in letting these kids sing a song that’s so associated with the gay movement in the first place and just go for “neutral songs”. Unfortunately, it’s all business here. American idol wants to be “neutral” on political issues – if you wanna call it that. They want to appeal both to the religious and the secular at the same time. It’s called “targeting the market”.

Double standards – that’s just a nasty thing. Sadly, it’s all about ratings, people, so we should just all get over it!

Cranberry on April 9, 2008 at 10:47 pm
24

I’m a Christian, and I thought it delivered a good positive message- and the contestant’s vocals were outstanding as well.

It just seemed a little odd to me that they would pick that song as the final song… and like someone else mentioned, I’d like to hope that all the contestants believe in God if they were singing that tonight… or it would have been more than a little awkward.

trendy on April 9, 2008 at 10:47 pm
25

sheesh almighty. I thought the contestants’s songs last night would be full of Jesus tunes, but instead the wheezing Idol machine tried to shove it down our throats. Interesting that they changed the lyrics a bit, but Ugh. The first song was nice.

GirlyGirl45 on April 9, 2008 at 10:48 pm
26

hm. this discussion is going to get ugly

flipchilln –
AH! I thought the exact same thing! kristy was NOT sounding too pretty lol. her mic was up way too loud and oy…it ruined the beginning for me.

Emily Patricia on April 9, 2008 at 10:48 pm
27

hrm, i may have to wake up early tomorrow to read the 500+ posts i know will be here

krighton on April 9, 2008 at 10:50 pm
28

sorry i have to derail the religious topic for one second:

do you guys see his (of course LN’s) arms?!? gahh they’re goregous! its no wonder why he wears long sleeves..because him,being the smart boy – wait..man that he is: it’ll cause like a mass epidemic where everyone starts fainting that they’ll need anotehr IGB episode to help all the people who fainted from his hotness.

MC on April 9, 2008 at 10:50 pm
29

Hi everyone–
First of all, good job to everyone for basically keeping cool on this thread…we all have a great time socializing here on rickey.org and we don’t want things to get ugly.
Next, I’m a Christian and I was surprised to hear the Idol kids sing “Shout to the Lord” tonight. For me, it was weird to hear a song that I hold sacred being sung in a secular light, with a lot of the actual references to Jesus sucked out of it. So, it was weird for me and weird for non-Christians.
Finally, I am a Christian, and that means that I don’t believe that being gay is right (ah!!), but I sincerely apologize to any people who are gay who have felt persecuted or alienated by the Christian community. I love all people; people are people, and I, or any other Christian, don’t have the right to judge anyone. We should be loving–if we were, we wouldn’t have a hypocritical reputation.
I would ask that everyone try to think of an individual Christian that they know to be a good person, rather than make generalizations about the whole group. If you want.
Ok, online friends, I’m done now. Thanks! Please feel free to comment to me with any kind of response if you feel the need.
I just think it’s so cool that people with all different sorts of lives can have fun together on this great site.
Rickey, thanks for all the hard work you put into it!

jordanvera on April 9, 2008 at 10:50 pm
30

Emily Patricia, #25:

Eh, I actually don’t think it will get that ugly. If only because there’s really nothing to debate seeing as how it’s done and over with.

We should all save the arguing for the results show tomorrow when the crazy inevitable ’shocker’ elimination takes place. ;]

trendy on April 9, 2008 at 10:51 pm
31

I agree, shouldn’t have sung this song!

sweetangel1051 on April 9, 2008 at 10:53 pm
32

Didn’t mean to cause any drama. I was just raised in a very tolerant home, I suppose, in that I was taught to appreciate everyone’s points of view, even if they don’t match yours, and to love everyone, regardless of lifestyle.

I find it unfortunate anyone would declare AIDS a punishment on any one group of people. As you know, anyone can get AIDS. It’s not a discriminatory disease despite some people’s assumptions.

I guess I just got a little offended by the blanket statement on Christians and what we believe, because people tend to lump us all together.

I may not personally agree with a certain lifestyle, but it is not anywhere in my rights to condemn anyone. And I love my aunt, her partner, and their two adopted boys. Always have, always will.

And, for the record, I believe in contraception. No kids, yet, please.

Evergreen on April 9, 2008 at 10:53 pm
33

jordanvera:

100% agree on everything said there. Well-worded and great thoughts.

trendy on April 9, 2008 at 10:53 pm
34

Oh Rickey, I’m very sorry you and many others have experienced that side of Christians. I’m a Christian as well, but my church is not against contraceptives nor do they look down on people with HIV/AIDS. They have issues with homosexuality but I don’t share those sentiments, and it pains me when I hear so called Christians speaking in hate against gays and lesbians.

It’s the same in any kind of group – there are good and bad apples among the bunch.

But anyway – Idol. Can’t view the clip yet and the episode will air hours from now on local time. Am utterly shocked at the news that “Shout To The Lord” was sung – never would have imagined that given that so many schools/states in the US have banned prayer from schools.

Love that they sang Seasons of Love though – saw the movie when I was at a huge emotional turning point in my life, and the songs always bring me to tears.

mommypatty on April 9, 2008 at 10:54 pm
35

Thanks, Trendy!

jordanvera on April 9, 2008 at 10:56 pm
36

We’re obviously quite tolerant here on Rickey.org which makes me happy. And thank you.

It was not the best song to sing, people might get offended, I was one of them, I expressed my opinion, we can just leave it at that.

Oh to be Kristy Lee Cook’s right thigh.

Rickey on April 9, 2008 at 10:57 pm
37

hoo boy. jordanvera: being Christian does not define your views on sexual orientation. In today’s society we completely ignore many Bible condemnations (menstruating women, shellfish, etc.) because we consider them antiquated notions. PEOPLE choose to retain prejudiced, ignorant views on human diversity, just as PEOPLE decide what from the Bible makes sense for them. Being gay is not “right” or “wrong” it just IS. Saying that being gay is wrong is like saying that having green eyes is wrong. It’s essentially meaningless.

Now… about the song. I was raised Christian, I still believe in the teachings of Jesus (which, btw, say absolutely nothing about sexual orientation), among many other spiritual teachers, but I don’t KNOW that song. And because I don’t know it, I’m not offended by it. I think that is probably true for a majority of people.

rascal on April 9, 2008 at 11:01 pm
38

trendy –

you’re right. i’m glad everyone is keeping their cool here =) i can just imagine how it is over at idolforums though 0_0

Emily Patricia on April 9, 2008 at 11:01 pm
39

This note is a direct response to Rickey,

Rickey, I have been a reader and supporter of your blog for years, and have never felt the need to post before. I understand you aren’t fond of Christianity, and that’s fine.

However, your blatant mischaracterization of Christianity finally got me to comment. First off, the Christian church is not against contraception, that would be the official Catholic church.

Secondly, the Christian church is no more intolerant to gays as they are to liars or cheaters. Yes, there are many people that hate gays, but Christianity preaches nothing but love and condemns hate towards anyone.

Thirdly, I have never seen such a blatant lie about the Christian church’s position towards HIV/AIDS. The Christian church is sympathetic and very supportive of helping people with aids and HIV. The Christian church does NOT consider HIV/AIDS as a punishment towards sexuality.

Rickey, I don’t know exactly who did something to you to turn you so against the movement of Christ. And for whoever did, I apologize personally. But regardless, if intolerance is so upsetting to you, then you should not be intolerant towards those who disagree with you.

libertyjosh on April 9, 2008 at 11:01 pm
40

I’m a Muslim. I don’t think I’d be watching Idol Gives Back if not for Archie =| Just putting it out there. Oh, and I’m a fag hag so anything against the LGBT community annoys the heck out of me.

SitiGrint on April 9, 2008 at 11:02 pm
41

OK… Here are my opinions:

1. Positive & inspirational song (even if you don’t follow the religion)
2. Go gay marriage!
3. Christian, but respect whatever you believe in.
4. Beautiful songs.
5. Respect opinions.

kyo2590 on April 9, 2008 at 11:03 pm
42

I agree it was not a good choice of song on a very public show, and they might see a fallout because of it.

But it did not deserve a rant against Christianity because they sang that song.

Why no comment on Mariah’s song that mentions God?

libertyjosh on April 9, 2008 at 11:03 pm
43

Oh… If people didn’t like the song or anything, they could just simply turn the TV to a different channel or turn if off if they wanted…

kyo2590 on April 9, 2008 at 11:04 pm
44

My dvr stopped recording so I didn’t get to see the last song, and youtube doesn’t have it.. anybody know where I can see it?

Virginia5 on April 9, 2008 at 11:06 pm
45

I’m a Christian, liked the song, noticed the changed the lyrics. Supposedly, David Cook is agnostic. If he can sing it….and SING IT he did, then well….I admire him for it.

GwendolynD on April 9, 2008 at 11:07 pm
46

Rickey….I love you and I love what you do here. But, I am very bothered with your rant about this song and born-again Christians in general. You say “the last time I checked, the church itself considers gays an abomination and HIV/AIDS as “god’s punishment”. Maybe part of your problem is that you haven’t checked lately, or you haven’t checked with more than a small sampling of people. I am a born-again Christian and I attend a mega-church with 10,000 other born again Christians (in the middle of the Bible belt, no less). My stance, and the stance of my church, couldn’t be more different from what you are claiming. Yes, there are a few ignorant, hateful, intolerant people that say they are Christians and think exactly along the lines of what you said. But, my experience is that most Christian churches today emphasize tolerance, love, acceptance, encouragement, kindness, etc. The churches that thrive on preaching a message that God’s gonna get you and everyone is going to hell are fast becoming a thing of the past.

Would you still be this upset if you found out that David Archuleta had suggested this song??? For all we know, he may have. Or maybe all of the AI contestants chose to sing this because this is how they feel or what they believe. Whatever the reasoning, try not to take it personally, just like I try not to take all of the music that advocates drugs, violence and killing personally. I may not care for the message, but they have a right to sing anything they want. I can appreciate the vocal quality or musical arrangement of a song and tune out the lyrics. Try just hearing the song as a song, and let any religious overtones that are offensive to you just roll off your back.

uktwirl on April 9, 2008 at 11:08 pm
47

Expressing my opinion in case anyone is keeping count… I was offended. But AI clearly doesn’t care if I’m offended.

extra on April 9, 2008 at 11:09 pm
48

great post uktwirl, i agree with you completely.

Virginia5 on April 9, 2008 at 11:10 pm
49

Emily Patricia:
Lmao I’m not even venturing over there tonight… they tend to get a little more than worked up about everything.

—-

I think it’s really cool that, even if some people’s initial reactions may be either:
“GAH DO NOT WANT, MUST GO STIR UP RIOTS.” or
“YEAH THEY SING THE TRUTH, MUST GO DEFEND TO THE DEATH.” or even just “WOT? o_O” – it’s nice to see we all can have an actual discussion here and either just accept our differences or simply talk with each other about what we personally believe in.

trendy on April 9, 2008 at 11:12 pm
50

amazing solo for David Archuleta!

odd_anne on April 9, 2008 at 11:14 pm
51

It’s good to see such positivity on a thread that could have easily turned into a fight somewhere else. Rickey expressed his feelings, we express ours and I’d like to think we’re a little better for it.

And the funny part is I didn’t even have to *look* at where Kristy Lee’s right thigh was- only David A. could bring out that kind of yerning in Rickey. Good taste, my friend.

annak on April 9, 2008 at 11:17 pm
52

Hey, rascal–
You’re right that the Bible has some weird stuff in it. The two examples you gave (menstruating women and shellfish (that kind of sounds funny!)) are Old Testament provisions, and many Christians believe that certain strictures from the OT no longer apply. And so, I eat shrimp anytime I can! And you’re also right that Jesus didn’t address homosexuality himself; it was Paul in the New Testament who wrote about it.
Homosexuality isn’t “meaningless” for everyone…I’m not trying to twist your words, it’s just that for some people it isn’t simply an accepted state of being, like having green eyes.
People do choose what they believe, and that’s why this thread is here, I suppose.
As Rickey would say, “Discuss!”
Or not, maybe we’re tired of this topic?
Good night, all!

jordanvera on April 9, 2008 at 11:19 pm
53

Archie sounds, as always, awesome with his solo there. And did you guys watch the Don’t Stop The Music. And Melody was holding/guiding Archie’s waist? *whistles* Shake that hip, Archie, shake that hip! *giggles uncontrollably*

SitiGrint on April 9, 2008 at 11:23 pm
54

Rickey, I love your site and I love your commentary but why is it suddenly PC to say Christians are homophobic and offensive? Why is it all of a sudden ok to paint Christians in a negative framework?

I say Idol has a right to pander to all groups

Seriously, though, I’m not familiar with the Christian group who sings that particular anthem and I consider myself a church going Christian. If a song’s about god and love and taking care of your neighbor, can we accept it at that?

And, yes, there are a lot of Christians out there who worship a “Christian” god and some of them even open up their pocketbooks for AIDS sufferers in Africa, or kids in New Orleans, or hungry families down the street. True Christian thought MANDATES that you love your neighbor as yourself, and that what you do to the least of your brothers, you do unto your God.

I’m sorry there are a lot of “Christians” who twist words, just like so many other extremists do.

Frankly, I’m offended by the Sisters Of Perpetual whatever they are (can’t remember) but that doesn’t mean I hate gays, (or nuns) or think they’re all to be measured against the behavior of an extremist group.

Can’t we all just get along?

FWIW, I’m not even watching the show but am looking forward to all your lovely clips. You’d laugh if you knew how often I reference your site!

My first post! And I had to pick a controversy in the making!

emp on April 9, 2008 at 11:24 pm
55

yah…had to say I enjoyed Archuleta’s hip shaking for the few moments that it was…*sighs*

Emily Patricia on April 9, 2008 at 11:25 pm
56

Let’s all “co-exist” or try to. Hate words from any direction is wrong.

hapi on April 9, 2008 at 11:27 pm
57

flipchillin and krighton, I noticed someone’s mic was way louder than anyone elses too but I thought it was Brooke’s. Pretty pitchy in the beginning!

Anyone notice no solos for Brooke tonight? Or did I miss hers?

imelda103 on April 9, 2008 at 11:27 pm
58

“Think about that when you listen to the finale song “Shout to the Lord” which is one of the anthems of the born-again movement in the world — a movement which does not support contraception and is intolerant towards gays and people with HIV/AIDS.”

Just one more thing, then I’m dropping it. This is a serious question. Where does this leave David Archuleta and Brooke White, both Latter Day Saints? Or, is that not a Christian religion?

GwendolynD on April 9, 2008 at 11:27 pm
59

Ok, add me to the list of people who disagree with your lumping all Christians together under a false statement. Do you research first next time!

I totally agree with posts # 39 and #46. Thank you for putting in to words what I could not.

LOVE this site, but disappointed in the actions taken here tonight. BUT, I also know ya can’t please everybody!

got2be_Idolfan on April 9, 2008 at 11:29 pm
60

I was just telling my friend on aim they might as well be calling this season of Idol, “Church Of The Latter Day Saints Idol”. David A is mormon right? One of the most homophobic bible based groups. It keeps me from loving him as much as I want to. Isn’t Brooke White also mormon?
I am all for religion and finding your God, but not when it singles people out and leaves others feeling uncomfortable. Once again I could puke at Idol.

xbrowneyesbluex on April 9, 2008 at 11:31 pm
61

hapi:

I throughly agree that hate words from anyone won’t get us anywhere. However, if you were implying there were hateful things being tossed around in here, I’d have to contest that… there’s a big difference between ‘hating on’ people and respectfully disagreeing with someone. And I think everyone did a very mature job of the latter tonight.

trendy on April 9, 2008 at 11:33 pm
62

One good thing about this thread for me is that it slows down the Archie’s thread so I can catch up reading the piled up posts over there.

heavyblow on April 9, 2008 at 11:35 pm
63

No, come to think of it, I didn’t see a Brooke solo. I was thinking that she opened the final song number & me not looking at the screen for the 1st few seconds had me believing that I missed her part. I don’t remember her soloing in the ‘opener’ either.

aprylette on April 9, 2008 at 11:35 pm
64

GwendolynD –
to answer your question…well. its a tough one!
some people, and Mormons themselves obviosely, believe that they are…”Christians” and they put themselves under that category, and they share some of the same beliefs as Bible believeing Christians.
So. I don’t think Mormons have a problem with that song if that is what you were asking.
but I won’t get into theology or anything; its a touchy subject…=/

Emily Patricia on April 9, 2008 at 11:35 pm
65

The author of this song wrote it while she was going through a tough time in her life and she was in a point in her life where things weren’t going well and she was inspired to write this song one day when she was alone at her piano which became later on a well known song throught the world in the Christian circles , since she’s a christian herself. Even Ruben Studdard had it on one of his records. The message behind this is of hope and giving praise to God in the midst of despair. I think its probably one of the reason why it was picked.

marianna1 on April 9, 2008 at 11:37 pm
66

Rickey,

I’m a LONNNNGGGG time reader, first time poster. I couldn’t stay hush on the issue you addressed. I LOVED the renditon of “Seasons of Love” and thought to myself that I was definitely going to download it off iTunes. I felt it was such a good choice, powerful, well sang– just perfect.

And like you, I also felt the song choice of “Shout to the Lord” was bad. I felt the same range of emotions you described. There are so many other inspiring song choices they could have ended the night with. Why did they have to bring religion into it? As a former member of a Baptist church who spoke from the pulpit against homosexuality and other issues that I’m totally the opposite in my feelings about– I found offense in the song choice. There are numerous Americans that are not Christians. I felt it ended the night on a sour note for me personally. Maybe there are only a select few that feel like we do, but its worth noting.

And like others have mentioned, I’m glad no one has been rude on the subject. Discussion brings on learning.

Thanks for creating this website. I’ll be sure to join in the discussion more now that I’ve finally joined.

se80502 on April 9, 2008 at 11:38 pm
67

@ #54 – wish they zoom the camera towards Archie =| I really want to see him shaking his hips without having to squint my eyes. *sighs*

SitiGrint on April 9, 2008 at 11:38 pm
68

Oops! The recording was botched! I think I pressed something by accident after Pork Chop sang. Sorry about that.

Thanks everyone for the non-inflammatory comments!

Let me hear a kum-ba-yah!

Rickey on April 9, 2008 at 11:39 pm
69

agree with number 58

themanwashere on April 9, 2008 at 11:40 pm
70

Some people may not want to lump all Christians in one big group but one of its primary leaders, the Pope, is one of the most offensive, evil and out of touch figures in modern religion. I don’t think Rickey.org is the place for religious gun slinging. Let’s stick to the fluff of AI and avoid trying to knock some sense into born Agains, Mormons and Catholics. AI is all about Hollywood. Scientology anyone? Not.

socal09 on April 9, 2008 at 11:43 pm
71

sorry Rickey you felt offended by the song. I didn’t realize what they were singing about. I only focused on how I wasn’t so impressed by the song itself.

takai7 on April 9, 2008 at 11:46 pm
72

socal09: You say we should avoid religious gun slinging after you just pointed and shot at the Catholic faith???? You should be ashamed of your words……

Sweet Melissa on April 9, 2008 at 11:47 pm
73

jordanvera – we could go on for days here, of course, but you sound like a reasonable individual so I’ll just add that my point about “meaninglessness” was simply that ascribing a moral dimension to what you call a ’state-of-being’ is an inherently irrational exercise. A state of being can’t be moral or immoral (which is why, of course, some try to propose the notion of ‘accepting’ the homosexual but not the activity; this is, among other things, anti-human, and really just a smokescreen equivocation on the old state-of-being argument).

The simple and irrefutable fact is that the world the way God made it includes a significant component of homosexuality, including all across the animal kingdom (a little-known but oft-proven fact). This is clearly part of what you might call “God’s plan.” To fixate so assiduously on one or two passages in the Bible–against thousands emphasizing love and compassion and acceptance and understanding–and have as a result the condemnation and marginalization of millions and millions of good people, well, that’s where the real sin lies.

rascal on April 9, 2008 at 11:49 pm
74

Rickey, I am a born again evangelical and conservative Christian. Just because SOME so called Christians fall into the intolerant realm does not define what Christianity is all about. Nor does it mean that all people who call themselves Christian are automatically intolerant. Christians are called to love ALL people, period. I do NOT consider myself intolerant of gays and people with HIV/AIDS nor am I against contraception. As with ANY religion or lifestyle or organization or ‘movement’, you will find people giving that particular entity a bad name. Sad, but true. Not much you can do about it except to ignore and do what you feel is right.

zekesmom on April 9, 2008 at 11:50 pm
75

…like I said, stick to AI. I grew up Roman Catholic, so you ain’t going to win a battle on that point.

socal09 on April 9, 2008 at 11:51 pm
76

And #70 is a prime example of what we were doing such a surprisingly well job of avoiding!

Good night everyone, and see you all tomorrow for the resulttttts show!

trendy on April 9, 2008 at 11:52 pm
77

rascal –
im not sure if i quite understand you.
whats wrong with accepting the homosexual but not the activity. =/
Eh…I could say alot of things I don’t agree with you on..but..I’ll just try and leave it at that.

Emily Patricia on April 9, 2008 at 11:53 pm
78

i dont think you should base your liking or not liking a song based on the origin and “official stance” of the songwriter because a lot of born -again Christians are gay and support the homosexual movement. many of my born-again Christian friends have gay friends and there are a lot of homosexuals in the Christian church i go to.i come from manila and we are very tolerant here, lol.
does that mean you hate all Hillsong tunes? and Bono who is born -again christian, and Sting?

jamiecutie23 on April 9, 2008 at 11:58 pm
79

Both Matthew and Luke recorded what Jesus had to say about people addressing Him as Lord and yet not doing what He said.

Luke 6:46 (NKJV)

But why do you call Me “Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say?

Matthew 7:21 (NKJV)

“Not everyone who says to Me, “Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

Do you think the world would be a better place if everyone acted like Jesus did when He walked the earth?

Some people think that when I talk about obeying Jesus that I am trying to preach to them that unless you work you won’t make it into heaven. They say anymore than saying we are saved by grace is a works based doctrine.

But here we have it in the words of Jesus. He says here that not everyone who says to Him Lord, Lord will make it into heaven.

SecondChance on April 10, 2008 at 12:11 am
80

Ok, just a couple of quick points. I, Rickey, am a Christian, and I do not, nor does anyone that I know, a)have a problem with contraception, or b) think that AIDS/HIV was created at a sort of genocidal weapon, if you will. The very idea of that is un-acceptable and atrocious! Please try not to generalize. I know that it is hard not to, sometimes, but honestly, “shout to the lord”, is a beautiful and inspirational song, and I believe that most people would agree with me that God does in fact have A LOT too do with the current situations in Africa, as well as the circumstances in New Orleans and in all parts of the world. God can work miracles and we can’t deny his role in things. I hope that you will try to be open minded about this and see that just because there are those fanatics out there who give all Christians a bad name, that the majority of us are truly caring and well-intended people! Thanks for letting me say my bit, Rickey!

bethany on April 10, 2008 at 12:13 am
81

Emily – simple question: Why should homosexuals, who, if you are accepting them as equal in the eyes of God, be denied the greatest gift that God bestows–Love? And if you don’t allow them that gift, then you are not accepting them as equal. Then you’re back to the state-of-being problem: Just because of who they are (how God made them) you have deemed them as second-class people, not worthy of the same rights and privileges as you. That’s no better than racial prejudice.

rascal on April 10, 2008 at 12:15 am
82

Couldn’t agree with you more Bethany. =)

Emily Patricia on April 10, 2008 at 12:16 am
83

Well, I am going to dive in and join the side of the bandwagon that feels “Shout to the Lord” was a bad, bad, BAD song choice.

I used to go to a non-denominational Christian church, and that song is sort of a youth group anthem. I haven’t been to church in years, and I still remember the words.

“Shout to the Lord, all the earth let us sing. Power and majesty praise to the king. Mountains bow down and the seas will roar at the sound of Your name.”
Uhm… hello?! Even if they changed the lyrics, the religious implications are blatantly THERE, and may I add unwelcome.

I respect every religion, and I respect a individual’s right to showcase that part of them. I believe in the past, we’ve had contestants like Mandisa and Latoya sings some gospel songs. Cool. This season, Kristy Lee and Jason Castro obviously love Jesus. Fine. If that’s the message they want to send, if that’s the music they want to sing, by all means do it.

But it is not right for AI to force all 8 contestants to sing that song as a group song that represents the entire franchise. There is truly no shortage of secular songs that are appropriate to tonight’s theme. The fact that they watered down the lyrics means nothing, since people that recognize the song know its intended purpose. Not to mention the “inspiration” in this song draws from the assumption that there is a Creator to thank. I guarantee that if they sang an inspirational Muslim hymn, only without the word “Allah,” the public backlash would be fierce. In a way, it comes off as AI endorsing a particular faith, and that is NOT cool.

DJ Ryce on April 10, 2008 at 12:19 am
84

Rascal –
Well, I don’t think that God denies homsosexuals love…
I believe that God loves everyone; just not the sin that they are committing. His love for mankind never changes; but that doesnt mean He approves of everything that we do. And thats how I see it.
And secondly – I don’t think God makes anyone gay. I think its a choice.

Emily Patricia on April 10, 2008 at 12:19 am
85

I completely disagree with your post. I’m an openly gay, African-American Christian. I think the song fit the theme of the evening. It’s an uplifting song. Nothing about it warrants an outright connection with right-wing, Conservative Christians! Have we really gotten to the point that simply mentioning the word ‘Lord’ implies this about someone?

Not only is your post irresponsible, it is also extremely hypocritical. Generalizing every Christian into gay-hating, anti-birth control, right-wing conservatives is just as bad as those that really are that type of Christian generalizing all gay people as widly sexually active, drug addicts that molest kids and have no morals.

The theme of the entire evening was supposed to be inspirational. I think the song covered that message completely. The only reference to religion is the word ‘Lord’. What’s so wrong with that? I can completely understand if the song was completely preachy, but it wasn’t. I see no reason for it to be all blown out of proportion!

Marquise on April 10, 2008 at 12:19 am
86

Emily – I’m not talking about God’s love, I’m talking about human love (which is what you would seek to deny homosexuals). As regards choice, there is not one single homosexual among the millions and millions across the great expanse of the world who will say that it was a choice. Not one. But of course you are free to believe whatever you wish.

rascal on April 10, 2008 at 12:24 am
87

Hey all–
uktwirl & joshliberty–Well said, I agree!
Rascal–
Your points add up in one way, but they are predicated on the idea that homosexuality is separate from morality. Some people think it is, some think it isn’t.
And I think we should refocus at this point.
The song “Shout to the Lord” has nothing to do with homosexuality, or AIDS, or contracption in any way. It’s only “crime” is that it’s from the Christian community.
Meanwhile, Ellen was on the show, but it never occurred to me to be bothered by her presence. Her message was a loving, helpful one and she truly wants to raise funds to help people. I believe the intent with the song was the same. If it had been some sort of propaganda move, it wouldn’t have been changed around lyrics-wise to exclude Jesus’ name.
I think the gay community was well represented on the show, and then there was an edited version of a Christian song…so, even?
In my concision, I may have cut some of the politeness corners, so love all around!
Ok, all, I’m off to bed!
Here’s “kum bay ya” for you Rickey! ‘Night!

jordanvera on April 10, 2008 at 12:25 am
88

Well, not all people choose to love homosexuals, but as a Christian, I believe that God teaches me to love everybody; but not to accept the sin.
But everyone sins; so if I disliked someone for their sin then I would dislike everyone! and that would be silly!
And actually, we are discussing homosexuality in my philosophy class in school.
I think that there are many factors that lend towards people becoming gay, such as how they are raised, and their temperment, etc…
But, all in all, when someone decides that they are homosexual, it is a choice.

Emily Patricia on April 10, 2008 at 12:29 am
89

Homosexuality being a choice (which it isn’t) is not the issue here. The issue is the song.

Marquise on April 10, 2008 at 12:31 am
90

Re: Emily Patricia

“I think that there are many factors that lend towards people becoming gay, such as how they are raised, and their temperment, etc…”

You forgot genetics…

DJ Ryce on April 10, 2008 at 12:31 am
91

Emily Patricia, rascal is well-equipped to respond to your question. I just wanted to offer this.

If you think about it, accepting a homosexual person but rejecting that individuals’ lifestyle which does consists of same-sex relationships is equivalent to embracing a heterosexual person, yet barring that person from engaging in male/female relationships. It is unrealistic & inhumane & would deny the homosexual man or woman the right to be a complete person. This perception that the person & their inherent behavior can be separated is why so many conceal their true sexual orientation because it doesn’t fit the norm.

aprylette on April 10, 2008 at 12:32 am
92

oh boy.. firstly i think this discussion is BEAUTIFUL.. nothing warms my heart more than being able to share opinions.. all i wanted to do was comment on Kristy’s loud microphone.. but now i feel i must share..

i’m glad to hear there are so many people.. christian or not who are tolerant.. but really.. i want more than tolerance.. i want more than acceptance.. i want appreciation.. appreciation for who i am.. and unfortunately.. christians (yes in general) have an uphill battle when it comes to appreciating homosexuality.. because homophobia and heterosexism are institutionalized.. laws don’t protect us.. some of us HAD to hide..

i grew up christian and grew up hating myself for awhile in the process (not anymore).. society is set up to bash gays and lesbians all in the NAME of god..

so if a few christians come up to me and tell me they love me and that they’re not “like” the others.. forgive me if i’m a bit cynical but it feels like you’re trying to convert me… for me, it’s the christians who need to convince the other christians (the condeming christians) about appreciation and changing what many christians believe.. that my life, my identity is a sin (cuz it’s not =)..

so thank you.. thank you to everyone that apparently loves me who doesn’t know me but at the same time does nothing but go to church, watches project runway and in their minds “accepts” me.. DO MORE.. prove to me and the world that you are as “christian” as you say you are =)

oh and it would be very difficult to believe my homosexuality was a choice.. cuz i would never want to chose to be oppressed.. lol

flipchilln on April 10, 2008 at 12:38 am
93

I agree with #65. Maybe the song was chosen because of the songwriter’s past struggles, which in turn, inspired her to write the song. Or maybe, AI just wants the Christian demographic to donate. I don’t really know the reason behind the selected song, but if the Top 8 were able to sing it despite their beliefs, then it’s best to just listen, and put our differences aside for awhile.

I am also Christian, and when I first heard that “Shout to the Lord” (a song I personally like) was the final song, I was a bit uneasy because someone is bound to be offended. However, I disagree with Christians rejecting contraception and being homophobic. Not all Christians should be stereotypically grouped into one category.

Besides, it’s not about what religion you are, or what you believe in. The main focus of the show is to give back to those who are in great need, and to unite people from various backgrounds and denominations to make the world a better place, one small step at a time, as cliche as it sounds.

Anyway, I’m just thankful this thread did not turn out ugly. That’s the spirit!
Peace everyone (:

Ann on April 10, 2008 at 12:42 am
94

this thread is getting awfully heavy…

aprylette: you are always so eloquent with your words and i almost always agree with your sentiments

sorry to switch topics, but david cook’s studio version of ‘Innocent’ just came out on iTunes. OMG – IT IS FREAKINGLY AMAZING!! i truly believe that this is how he envisioned his performance to be like on tuesday. i just bought copies for my family and friends – the song has such a great message and his delivery is pretty much impeccable in the studio version. david cook’s voice gets me everytime… and it’s hard not to get a little teary-eyed when you pay close attention to the lyrics. i hope people can gain a better understanding to why he chose to sing this song now.

meddie on April 10, 2008 at 12:43 am
95

flipchilln–
Thanks for what you said; I’ll really think about it.
Apparently, I didn’t go to bed yet like I said I was going to…so, for reals, good night, everyone!

jordanvera on April 10, 2008 at 12:45 am
96

Lol.. people having a choice of being gay, now that’s funny.

But anyway… I was very turned off by them singing that song. I always hear it during commericials for Christian Rock cds etc and just.. BLEH… I’m agnostic and well.. I won’t get into what I believe in here. I’ll just say, there are plenty.. PLENTY of inspirational songs they could’ve sung that does not have religion stuck to it. They should not have sung that song, period.

Pallaton on April 10, 2008 at 12:50 am
97

flipchilln –
i know that christians in general get a bad name for being so cruel against homosexuality.
it saddens me yes,
and honestly, i’ve done a lot of thinking, theres nothing any worse with being gay than any other sin. I’m not sure why Christians tend to point it out more than any other sin. I think that cheating on a test or…lying is just as bad…well…I just think it’s all the same. Sin.
So yah it sucks that a lot of Christians tend to put some much time and energy into bashing homosexuals.

aprylette –
to be honest. i try not to define someone by their SEXUAL PRACTICES. i’ve always thought that strange that we simply define someone as “gay”…so.
And honestly, I think you can seperate the person and their sin (which you chose to call behavior)

DJ Ryce –
i left genetics out for a reason =)
i honestly don’t see how genetics has anything to do with someone behing homosexual

Emily Patricia on April 10, 2008 at 12:50 am
98

Emily Patricia, sorry but you are so far in left field, you dove right over the fence. Let me say this just once: Being gay IS NOT a choice. You just are. You don’t CHOOSE to be gay.

This is not a personal attack, it applies to ANYONE who still believes the notion that being gay is a choice.

Back to regular scheduled programming….

socal09 on April 10, 2008 at 12:52 am
99

and one more thing. I guess…I think people have a choice to be gay, because I think being gay is a sin (bash me if you want lol)
and so for me to say its not a choice is to say…that you didnt have the choice to sin. and that is CLEARLY against the Bible.

Emily Patricia on April 10, 2008 at 12:52 am
100

Rick,

You have grossly mischaracterized most of Christianity and the origins of the song. This is nothing but a knee jerk anti Christian rant on your part that is completely void of the understanding of the very groups which you claim misunderstand you.

As a Catholic I believe that the homosexual act is wrong but I believe its just as wrong as any extramarital sexual activity. Yet I don’t believe you are condemned to hell nor do I think an active homosexual is any worse than me. I have many gay friends and treat them no differently than I do my straight friends. The old adage is “hate the sin love the sinner.” Most of Christianity is understanding, tolerant, rational, and reasonable. Its entirely unfair to lump everyone with the fundamentalists who make up a minority of all Christians. These people frustrate me just as much as you.

As for the song, it is in no way associated strictly with fundamentalists churches. I first came familiar with the song 7 years ago in a Catholic music group I was in. The song along with the group are on of the main reasons I love music and more specifically American Idol.

So I implore you to seek more understanding and dialog with Christians rather than showing the same animosity towards them that you feel they are showing to you.

winwin07 on April 10, 2008 at 12:56 am
101

Aww, Rickey, that was a really sweet update, and thanks for clearing that up! Again, unfortunately, if you eat a bad egg once, you probably aren’t going to like them much after that…..ok, I know I just used a REALLY lame metaphor in which I compared Christians to eggs, hahaha, but you get my point, I hope:)

bethany on April 10, 2008 at 12:57 am
102

Rickey,you’re just so irresponsible as ever,you shouldnt have pointed that out anymore,majority of people watching AI doesnt know or even care about those kind of details,you should have just let that issue untackled,we know youre smart but we dont need those kind of discusion here,youre just creating a inter religion fued,that song was chosen for the mere reason that it is famous and it is inspirational,now,the moralist group are revolting with you,could you just help spread peace and unity and not provoke dispute..

slytherinz on April 10, 2008 at 12:59 am
103

Hi meddie! Thanx for lightening things up a bit!:)

I bet is IS ‘freaking amazing’ & it’s the full-length song, so he’ll have more time on the beautiful verses! David Cooks’ voice just does something to me literally & this studio version… OMG I can’t wait to download it! Muah!!

aprylette on April 10, 2008 at 12:59 am
104

ugly interpretation,so lame not as powerful and poignant like in the movie

slytherinz on April 10, 2008 at 12:59 am
105

Fascinating discussion, everyone! I didn’t see/hear the song in question and so much has been said on the subject already that I really have nothing to add. Just wanted to say it is refreshing to see people discussing such a hard issue with maturity, respect, and thoughtfulness. Of course, this is one of the reasons why I love Rickey.org.

Carry on!

hesterprune on April 10, 2008 at 1:01 am
106

slytherinz, this is Rickey’s blog… he has every right to voice his opinion.
I don’t like some of the things he posts, but realize that it’s his blog.. he can do whatever he wants.
And there is nothing wrong with dispute so long as it’s peaceful which it has been so far.

Pallaton on April 10, 2008 at 1:04 am
107

argh! my DVR.. it cut off after daughtry.. why did it say it was ending at 10pm when it wasn’t?.. i can’t even watch the ending that everyone is talking about! ok.. who lives in lakewood, ca and can invite me over to watch this all over again? pleeeeeeeeeaaase.. this sucks =/

flipchilln on April 10, 2008 at 1:06 am
108

for the life of me, i can’t fathom why people would think that sexuality is a choice? why would gay people “choose” to belong in a group that (unfortunately) remains so stigmatized in this day and age? most gay people develop their attraction towards the same gender at a very, very early age… which highly suggests that nurture is a huge (if not the sole) component in formulating one’s sexual orientation.

love is love is love. when there is so much hate and poverty in the world, why should love between 2 consenting adults be viewed any differently when it’s man/woman or man/man or woman/woman? there’s too much judgement in the world…

anyhow… have i mentioned that david cook’s studio version of ‘innocent’ is totally awesome?

meddie on April 10, 2008 at 1:08 am
109

Hey Flipchilln, my aunt and uncle live in Lakewood…..but I don’t think they watch Idol, sorry. Plus, I probably shouldn’t be sending strangers from the scary internet over to their pad:)

bethany on April 10, 2008 at 1:10 am
110

Well said meddie! Well said!

Pallaton on April 10, 2008 at 1:15 am
111

time out! i so just noticed that mr. archuleta had his arm on kristy’s leg……..playa! lol jk
seriousely though…..so not fair lol

Emily Patricia on April 10, 2008 at 1:16 am
112

While I have yet to even hear the song in question I have to admit to being offended by a few of the statements about homosexuals I have read tonight … and feel the need to respond to at least a few:

“I am a Christian, and that means that I don’t believe that being gay is right (ah!!), but I sincerely apologize to any people who are gay who have felt persecuted or alienated by the Christian community.”

- jordanvera

jordanvera – Who wouldn’t feel persecuted or alienated when you believe the way in which I was born is not “right.” Seems to me that would be offensive. Sure is to me.

“Secondly, the Christian church is no more intolerant to gays as they are to liars or cheaters.”

- libertyjosh

libertyjosh – Thanks so much for equating me with liars and cheaters — that surely is a positive loving stance to hold towards another.

As you may have guessed I am gay and am always mystified by the Christian who tells me on the one hand they love me but on the other hand they basically consider me an abomination — how is that a positive loving message? My guess is that it is just the kind of conflicting message that Rickey was responding to in his upset to this particular closing song. Funny thing for me is that I am more offended by some of the responses on rickey.org than I was by the song that finally just played on my TV.

- surfnativ

surfnativ on April 10, 2008 at 1:19 am
113

Re: Emily Patricia

“i honestly don’t see how genetics has anything to do with someone behing homosexual”

Because genetics is something biological that can’t be controlled. I could go into a scientic explanation about the chromosomes that influence sexuality and cite multiple examples of how often intersexuality occurs in other species in nature, but that would deprive you of conducting a fascinating search yourself. The scientific information is readily available, but if you’ve already made up your mind, I’m not going to waste my time describing it. Instead, I am going to try to contextualize it using simple, mundane examples.

The idea that somebody “chooses” to be gay has always made me laugh. I always visualize somebody waking up on a Thursday morning, stretching, and saying to themselves, “Hmm… I’m bored of being straight. I don’t feel like it any more.”

I’m sure you’ve had a crush on somebody before. Do you really believe that it’s something you have a choice on? Do you actively say to yourself, “I will only attracted to green-eyed men, but not blue-eyed men.” Do you
really have so much self-control that you can actively choose what type of people you are drawn to?

That’s like asking me to explain why I don’t like the taste of cauliflower, or why somebody is allergic to cats.

DJ Ryce on April 10, 2008 at 1:19 am
114

I thought that Kristy sounded better in her little “seasons of love” solo, than she has all season. And believe me, it physically hurts me to day something even remotely positive about her….ick,

bethany on April 10, 2008 at 1:19 am
115

I know the conversation’s slid away from the main post a little, but I just wanted to add my say:

Wrong song choice, totally. And I’m not bashing the song, or Christians,or anybody, I just think it was out of place here.

I don’t get people who say it’s a good choice because it’s “inspirational.” It’s a worship song directed toward God, whereas the whole night has been people-focused: people are in need, and we should give and help them. So religion just didn’t need to be inserted there, even if they took the “Jesus” out in a useless attempt to make it PC.

On another note, I’m just wondering… on Dolly Parton night nobody seemed bothered by the many songs in which Jesus was blatantly mentioned (including “Jesus and Gravity”). Why get upset about one and not the other? Don’t get me wrong, I love Dolly, but the same Jesus she sings about is the one “Shout to the Lord” was written for. Just a thought…

eruanna317 on April 10, 2008 at 1:19 am
116

WOW! I listen to the song over and over and does make me angry! Not because I am not a Christian, but the message on this particular song is not supposed to sing on AI ! viewers are from all over the world and I have so many gay friends, even one of them was my good friend who originally from Uganda, he died 3 months ago of AIDS! Piss me off!! wish I never heard that song at all, now I can’t sleep because I am so offended!!! Dang it!!

Nemya_Mega on April 10, 2008 at 1:22 am
117

eruanna317, VERY good point~~~

And I agree the song DID seem out of place, but not offensive.

bethany on April 10, 2008 at 1:24 am
118

You said it, meddie! “for the life of me, i can’t fathom why people would think that sexuality is a choice? why would gay people “choose” to belong in a group that (unfortunately) remains so stigmatized in this day and age? most gay people develop their attraction towards the same gender at a very, very early age… which highly suggests that nurture is a huge (if not the sole) component in formulating one’s sexual orientation.”

Why can’t people see this?

By the way, I haven’t made it over to iTunes yet. Did you purchase David Cooks gem yet?

aprylette on April 10, 2008 at 1:25 am
119

Nemya_Mega ….I am sorry, but come ON. I am very sorry that you lost your friend, but now you can’t sleep because you heard a worship song? Mellow out a bit maybe. Have a nice cup of tea, no?

bethany on April 10, 2008 at 1:28 am
120

I appreciate and agree with comments #39 and #65. I’m totally unsure of who picked the song and what their rationale for doing so was. I’m a born-again follower of Jesus and the Bible and I was really surprised that Idol was going to do this song. No one seems to point out the fact that they did it at the very end, so if others were offended, they could simple turn it off.

Speaking of offended, lots of people seem offended that they sang the song. Well, maybe I was offended because if you’re going to sing a song like that, why change the lyrics from “My Jesus, My Savior” to “My shepherd”? Why would they change it? Are they afraid to say His name? That’s crazy.

What’s important to me is how the song was delivered. There was so much background (choir and band) that it seemed like the idols had to scream just to let their voices be heard, especially on the solo parts. And John, Sayisha and Jason had two separate parts were just the three of them sang, and it sounded bad. This song didn’t seem very well rehearsed. I’m still glad they did it though.

And Ricky, I too am sorry that the “church” or “Christians” have hurt you and others so much. It’s a shame that we don’t follow Jesus’s example more often and love others like He loves them. Thanks for all your hard work to keep us up-to-date on all the Idol news!

aifan2boot on April 10, 2008 at 1:30 am
121

bethany.. lol.. love it =)

flipchilln on April 10, 2008 at 1:30 am
122

DJ Ryce: Excellent post #112. I was hesitant to delve into the “scientific basis” of sexuality, but you encapsulated everything so well!! Excellent examples and I completely agree with you. I have several gay friends with whom I have had deep discussions about their sexuality. They have gone through tremendous hardships because of people’s judgements towards them and endless pressures to “choose” the straight lifestyle. It is utterly obvious to me that it can’t be a choice. I repeat – love is love is love. People should not be scrutinzed for who they love as long as it’s mutual, respectful, and between consenting adults.

meddie on April 10, 2008 at 1:30 am
123

“libertyjosh – Thanks so much for equating me with liars and cheaters — that surely is a positive loving stance to hold towards another.”

I do believe there is no person on this earth that has never lied or cheated, so I have absolutely no problem placing you on the same level as a liar and a cheater. I am not characterizing you because you may be gay, I am characterizing you like every other human being on this earth. There is no perfect person on this earth.

A positive loving stance is not one that walks on eggshells because you may disagree with someone. A positive loving stance is telling people how you feel, regardless of how touchy a subject is.

libertyjosh on April 10, 2008 at 1:31 am
124

@Emily:

Your “choice” debate is sort of ridiculous. You have no justification as to why it is a choice instead of something you are born with, other than it is convenient for you to think of it as a choice. There are mounds of scientific evidence that suggests it has strong biological components; the strongest of which have to do with hormone levels of a mother on a child still in the womb. To simply state its a “choice” is not only misleading, but GREATLY misinformed.

If ignorant, by definition, means being uninformed on an issue, perhaps you should spend less time defending yourself when someone suggests you might be ignorant and more time doing some research. I don’t say this to offend you, but this is a prime example of the kind of issue people of the GLBT community have to deal with regularly.

Its most definitely true that not all christians are ignorant on this issue, but a surprising number are.

griffinrb on April 10, 2008 at 1:31 am
125

bethany! u r right, I should not take that personally. i was just angry. i am making a cup of green tea now so 11pm i am ready to go to bed. thank you for your adviceLOL

Nemya_Mega on April 10, 2008 at 1:33 am
126

no problem, I am here to help:)

bethany on April 10, 2008 at 1:36 am
127

aprylette: yes! i purchased david cook’s studio version of Innocent already. i can’t emphasize how amazing it is!! i can go on and on – let’s just say i’ve bought copies for my family and friends in some odd way, i think Innocent is actually my favorite among all of David Cook’s recordings so far (even surpassing Billie Jean – gasp!). it’s unfortunate that David didn’t get the chance to sing the entire song on tuesday – in the studio version, he really delivers the lyrics with tremendous conviction and passion, and we can only appreciate this when the song is sung in its entirety. i work in the cancer field and i see patients succumb to their disease on a regular basis, so the lyrics of the song touch me very deeply. i think it must have also touched david cook a lot too – perhaps people who purchase his studio version can now gain a better understanding towards his poignant and meaningful song selection. david cook is truly a star in my books… and i’ve never said this about any other previous AI contestant.

meddie on April 10, 2008 at 1:37 am
128

Re: libertyjosh

“I do believe there is no person on this earth that has never lied or cheated, so I have absolutely no problem placing you on the same level as a liar and a cheater.”

There’s a distinct difference there. You are correct that nobody is perfect, we’ve all cheated and lied. But those are single, isolated unethical acts. For the most part, lying and cheating is premeditated, and the perpetrator is making the conscious decision to do something. A person that has lied is not the same as a pathological liar.

In the same way, it is fallacious to say that a gay person is only “being gay” whenever they are engaging in sexual acts, and the rest of the time, they are being normal. But that’s going under the assumption that homosexuality is something you can turn on and off randomly.

Homosexuality is not a single action, it is a state of being. If you define homosexuality as an immoral act, then the person’s very act of “being” a homosexual is wrong. I don’t want to speak for another poster, but I imagine the reason surf was offended was because you essentially condemned his very existence as being wrong. Regardless of how “positively loving” you are trying to be, nobody deserves to hear that.

DJ Ryce on April 10, 2008 at 1:40 am
129

I thought the song was an excellent choice, I’m sorry it may have offended anyone though. Changing topic here, anyone gonna talk about idol gives back at all? lol well here goes…

1. LOVED the beginning when sytycd dancers came out
2. robin williams was so hilarious!
3. loved when simon got dissed by everyone haha
4. daughtry should have won american idol
5. last but not least……… BRAD PITT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! omg sorry michael johns, but brad pitt was WAY hotter…. <3 you Brad!!

lainey on April 10, 2008 at 1:41 am
130

I 2nd everything in post #122. Great job DJ Ryce!

Wow, meddie! your post is so compelling. Cancer is very prevalent in my entire family & this song, Innocent, can provoke extreme emotion. So much that once I exit this very addictive thread, I’ll venture over to iTunes.

Let me add this. You are a terrific David Cook fan or as Rickey declared ‘Cookie’, !, buying multiple copies of this gem for family, etc. Share the love, love love!!

aprylette on April 10, 2008 at 1:46 am
131

@ DJ Ryce

I was stating the church position on homosexuality, not my own personal opinion.

Secondly, I don’t think it’s wrong for a guy to have sexual attraction to another guy or for a girl to have sexual attraction to another female.

My point was that the church was being mischaracterized as a hateful institution, when, the church believes that homosexuality is no worse than any other sin. Yes, the church believes that. So what? Why does that bother you that they believe that? It doesn’t affect you.

libertyjosh on April 10, 2008 at 1:49 am
132

On a sidenote, sorry if my posts are becoming long and pedantic. I didn’t mean to stray from my original point (“the song was a bad choice”), but the way I figure, the forum is a great venue to reach a wide audience. If there is the off-chance I can help foster any understanding and spread the love, I think I should take the chance. Anyways, thanks to everybody who has taken the time to read and post on this site. It’s been a pleasure, thanks for keeping it civil.

Jason Castro is my Coffee House Idol!!
David Cook for the win!!!

DJ Ryce on April 10, 2008 at 1:50 am
133

ah! so 99% of you don’t agree with me.
and thats ok.
i don’t think im ignorant.
i just don’t think its…well…natural for someone to be gay. God instituted relationships to be between man and woman…not man/man etc…
but if you aren’t a Christian, then you aren’t going to see it this way, and you’ll continue to argue that its not a choice. so I’m pretty sure theres nothing i can say at this point to even try and make a point.

Emily Patricia on April 10, 2008 at 1:50 am
134

i agree with you emily

lainey on April 10, 2008 at 1:55 am
135

aprylette re: post #130.

the interesting thing is that i don’t usually “idolize” people, esp. not AI contestants! i really liked kelly in season 1, but the intensity of my admiration towards david cook’s singing and voice is… um… a tad surprising. i think he really connects with his songs, plus he takes risks each week. more importantly, i really want the singer with most raw talent to win this year

meddie on April 10, 2008 at 1:55 am
136

Dear Rickey ~

As a Christian and fellow human being, I’m utterly grieved with and for you and what you’ve endured.

Please be encouraged that, despite what anyone says or does, that there is one standard alone of which can be compared to the great love of God and that’s Jesus.

He alone is our judge, says His word. And Jesus had strong words for them Pharisees (supposed believers) who often thought themselves better than others. His word and judgment applies to everyone, Christian and non-Christian. The standard is the same. So if anyone dares to to judge you, remind them of these things:

John 12:44-50 says: “Then Jesus cried out, “When a man believes in me, he does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me. When he looks at me, he sees the one who sent me. I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness. As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it. There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day. For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it. I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.”

John the Baptist in Matthew 3:7-10… “But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptizing, he said to them: ‘You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. And do not think you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.” (Ouch!)

But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Remind (the pretend) Christians this in Romans 5:8… “Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him!”

Jesus often got badmouthed for hanging out with partiers and tax collectors (considered amongst “scum” of his day). He touched lepers and healed them when no one else would get near them (consider AIDS, the “lepers” of our present day). He put his walk where his talk was and he did it with humility, grace, and acceptance. In the Bible, He didn’t tell the woman at the well that he’d forgive her IF she didn’t sin anymore. On the contrary, He forgave her and then told her not to sin anymore.

All fall miserably short of God’s standard. If you choose to reject Jesus because of what people have told you, you’re doing Jesus a disservice, I believe. In so many passages of the Bible, his jealous love seeks us out, like when the shepherd leaves the herd by itself to seek out the one stuck in the cleft of the rocks.

The obedience and love of the Father is what kept Jesus hanging on the cross to take the rap for all of our sins, not our works, impressive sermons, or fruitless praises. True Christians realize that they/we have nothing of which to recommend themselves. Any good in us comes from Him alone.

Please don’t sell Him short because of a few morons, Rickey. I’m so sorry for what’s been done to you. Please forgive them and count them as frauds. Get to know the real Jesus for yourself, not the cheap imitation created by self-righteous people.

I know this is long and yammering, but I give a rip about your heart and the wrong done to you.

The next time you hear “Shout to the Lord,” may you hear it anew. He alone is perfect. Only He loves you like no other, and He alone won’t leave you when everyone else fails.

If you’ve read this far, thanks for listening. Bless you, Rickey.

Your kabayan and friend,
Stella.

StellaMartin on April 10, 2008 at 1:55 am
137

If there is going to be healthy dialogue about Christians and gays, it should start with an acknowledgement that, over the years, many gays have been treated very terribly by others, Christian and non-Christian. So, even though I was not involved in such bad behavior, I will stand up on behalf of those who did and say I repent and apologize for beatings, oppression, homophobia, bullying, name-calling, bitterness, anger, and unwelcoming, pious, prideful, and arrogant attitudes toward gays. I ask your forgiveness.

doingjustice on April 10, 2008 at 1:57 am
138

Ah Rickey! I’m so sorry you had such a hard time earlier in your life. You know we love you and appreciate your providing this space for us. I guess I should speak individually, rather than collectively, in expressing my thanks to you! So from me personally, Thank You!

I didn’t see the song either, so can’t comment. I can comment about Brooke and David. As members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (LDS or Mormon) their most deeply held belief is that Jesus Christ is their Savior and Redeemer. For some reason, Evangelical Christians have arbitrarily decided to label tham as non-Christian. This hurts people who are LDS very deeply and is extremely puzzling. I doubt either Brooke or David was familiar with the “Shout” song.

My belief is that what a person does and is, is more important than what he says he believes. So for example, when someone who says they are a follower of Jesus Christ so blatantly disregards the way He lived His life, and persecutes people in His name, I know they are not living honestly. If a person espouses no religion, but loves unconditionally and is tolerant of everyone, they are living honestly and more in line with Christ’s teachings than the others, even if they do not espouse that belief.

Sometimes doctrine gets in the way of true religion.

So can we get back to discussing how beautiful The Archuleta looked, how awesome his solo was and how Kristy Lee’s right thigh is envied tonight by millions of women (and men!)??

archu_adorable on April 10, 2008 at 2:03 am
139

P.S.

Re: libertyjosh

I was responding to #123. You said, quote, “I have absolutely no problem placing you on the same level as a liar and a cheater.” Re-read that, and tell me that doesn’t sound harsh. But I’ll go ahead and give you the benefit of the doubt and assume when you say “I” you mean “the church.”

“So what? Why does that bother you that they believe that? It doesn’t affect you.”

I sequestered myself in a bubble, I guess it wouldn’t affect me. But unfortunately, I have an active lifestyle, and the church’s beliefs do have a direct effect on my daily life. You ask why it bothers me? Because these people’s beliefs are making their way into public policy, and that in turn affects the entire country. I’m an American citizen — these decisions affect me.

Gay marriage is illegal, and in many states, “sodomy” is still considered a crime. When partners who have been together for decades (longer than most heterosexual marriages) are still not eligible for healthcare benefits or getting a loan on a house.

Not to sound defensive, but I’m not the one with the problem. Hell, I’m not even gay. The real question is, why does the church let these acts bother them?

DJ Ryce on April 10, 2008 at 2:03 am
140

‘I imagine the reason surf was offended was because you essentially condemned his very existence as being wrong. Regardless of how “positively loving” you are trying to be, nobody deserves to hear that.’

-DJ Ryce

Exactly DJ Ryce – thanks for expressing it so well.

Finally, while it is one’s right to believe I am a sinner for my innate love of another it is as well my own right to believe that they are incorrect and that an all loving higher power (I am agnostic) loves me just the way I am.

- surfnativ

surfnativ on April 10, 2008 at 2:07 am
141

@ DJ Ryce

Yeah, I understand how my second comment would be construed that way. My first was specifically the church, I apologize. And, yes, it was harsh

Yes, the church shouldn’t let gay people bother them in that it really should be none of their business whether or not someone is gay, and they should accept them into the church regardless of their sexuality.

Without getting into politics I have the viewpoint of just letting people be, thus I don’t see why either side is letting it bother them. Gay people have just as much opportunity to influence politics as do church people.

libertyjosh on April 10, 2008 at 2:11 am
142

Emily Patricia, enjoy life on that spaceship you’re living on. The rest of us will continue living in the real world.

socal09 on April 10, 2008 at 2:26 am
143

I loved this performance from the Idol group. Great job guys! The entire Idol Gives Back might have been long, but I enjoyed it, OVERALL. I even donated some money.

shadow25 on April 10, 2008 at 2:31 am
144

aww…socal09 that wasnt very nice
i really thought we were having a mature discussion here and then you have to go and say that =/
i know that what i believe isnt commonly accepted. but just because its not what the majority believes that doesnt mean im wrong.
in my own defense, the Bible tells me that the path that leads to Christ is narrow, meaning that not many people will believe the truth…so…I guess I feel blessed that I’m apart of that narrow path to Christ.

Emily Patricia on April 10, 2008 at 2:35 am
145

Please some one update me what happen during the last ten minutes of idol give back because my dvr went out AHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!

S.C.A on April 10, 2008 at 2:35 am
146

=/ hey guys.
i feel kinda bad.i really hope i didnt offend anyone.
i dont regret what i said, but i just hope that i didnt get bad name for the things ive said.
i sincerely appreciate every single one of you on here, discussing your opinions in a mature way.
but anways. if ive offended anyone. my apologies.

Emily Patricia on April 10, 2008 at 3:06 am
147

Oh mannnn… this thread has suddenly become a discussion/debate about “homosexuality is a sin”, etc. I like that it’s a mature debate thus far. And that’s saying something cos I know where and how this debate can go. Let’s just say: Been there, done that. I told you I’m a fag hag/fruit fly/whathaveyous. But before it goes bad, can we like divert ourselves away from that and focus towards the American Idol?

P.S: This has been my personal stance – Homo, Straight, Gay, Bi, Lesbian, Hetero, Love is Love. Peace!

SitiGrint on April 10, 2008 at 3:35 am
148

In context of the show, the song was horrible. It was included as a cynical appeal to evangelicals to give to Idol.

Rickey, I’d like to point out you didn’t bash Castro for singing Hallelujah, despite Judeo-Christian overtones of its original lyric.

The ancient philosophical views underlying the “intolerance” you see in Christianity with opposing birth control is an aim to foster continuation and growth of the society. No birth control = more children. No gay couplings allowed = more hetero couplings, more kids. No adultery = less strife. No pork = no trichinosis. Etc., etc.

Today we have many who want science to free them from consequences of willfully irresponsible behaviors whether its an “unwanted” pregnancy or contracting a disease such as chlamydia or HIV/AIDS.

It doesn’t mean you shouldn’t have compassion but we must also hold one another to act responsibly. There’s little excuse for HIV/AIDS to have continued spreading in the West, especially among gay men.

Part of our human responsibility is in sharing a moral education which helps you avoid those pitfalls and, ultimately, benefit everyone.

druzilla on April 10, 2008 at 4:00 am
149

Probably the central theme of this thread is how offended some are about a Christian song choice on Idol Gives Back, considering the attitutde many fundamentalists Christians have towards gays. Interestingly, some of those who are most offended, including Rickey, repeatedly make suggestive comments, even in this thread, that help fundamentalists stereotype gay men. I have noted these comments for weeks now in the various threads here and up to now I have remained silent. But when it is exhibited overtly in this, of all threads, I think it is time to speak up.

Rickey, is it really necessary to make comments about a 17 year old that could reasonably be construed to contain sexual overtones? As exhibit A, in one of your posts above you concluded with…”Oh to be Kristy Lee Cook’s right thigh”. The picture accompanying this thread has David Archuletta sitting against KLC’s right leg. I interpret that to mean you would love to have David leaning against you in some way. First and foremost, that statement was a completely unnecessary addition to your entry. It had absolutley nothng to do with the point you were making in the post. I assume then that it was intended to add levity and was therefore probably innocently made. But dude…statements like that just fan the fundamentalist’s flames about gay men pursuing teenage boys. As offended as I am by that stereotype, I am equally offended when people who should know better continually make…well, stupid, statements like that even if they are intended to be humorous. If this were an isolated incident I would pass it off as no big deal. But it is not isolated; “innocent” statements like this are all over the DA threads. I believe the guy is still considered underage by most, if not all, states, but more than that, I seriously doubt he would find anything to appreciate about that kind of statement.

Perhaps I am making a mountain out of the proverbial mole hill, but I think it could be construed as fairly hypocritical to rail against the prejudices of homophobs while posting comments, however innocently made, that can be used to feed their frenzy.

TerryW on April 10, 2008 at 5:00 am
150

TerryW: Thanks for the comment. It was aimed to be humorous in reference to a comment made in a DA thread about David “stuck” on Kristy Lee for the entire song. I think you are reading too much into it.

I started writing the girls to tone it down a bit today. I cannot filter all the posts that keep on coming, but I will try.

With regards to my own “innocent comments”, well it’s completely beyond my control what other people think. Am I all of a sudden the “gay” standard that I cannot say anything innocently without perpetuating a stereotype? Doesn’t make sense. When was I elected?

At the end of the day, this is a personal blog of a huge American Idol fan. Everyone will have an opinion about me — some good, some bad — but I know who I am, and that’s what matters to me.

—

Well that was fun. This post has ADD. LOL.

Rickey on April 10, 2008 at 5:35 am
151

Okay, I’ve stopped watching the show since Danny left but I had to check out the remaining contestants singing “Seasons of Love”. I was curious to see if they could pull it off.

Let’s just say that I’m glad I didn’t watch the show. I would have thrown something at the TV.

That performance lacked energy even with the help of a choir. And David Archuleta messed up the words again.

TainaAzteca on April 10, 2008 at 6:39 am
152

Has a non-Archie topic ever been as thoroughly discussed on rickey?

My opinion hardly matters, but one thing always bothers me about the rationale that a person chooses to be gay. What about the people who are born somewhere in between, at least physically? Are we unaware that they exist? If a person can come into this world with both sexes, or a mix of them, then why is it so hard to believe that we could be ‘wired’ to love in a certain way, also?

Hope I’m not opening up another can of worms, here. It’s just something I seldom see mentioned.

KH on April 10, 2008 at 7:27 am
153

As a young adult, I considered myself a Christian. I now believe in a loving Creator but can’t subscribe to any prophet who sets narrow parameters for a divine love. I know I’m unusual and refuse to be offended by a song. (But I understand how Rickey’s experiences affected his opinion.)

I will say that I *hope* the singers were given a choice to sing this song, or not. A vote, perhaps?

Think about how much greater the show would’ve been if they’d found a song that rejoiced in every person’s humanity.

KH on April 10, 2008 at 7:32 am
154

I am offended by Christianity period, because the mainstream belief is that anyone who doesn’t believe in it will burn forever in hell. What sort of benevolent creator is that?!?

But many of my friends are Christians and I love them dearly — would lay down my life to save theirs if necessary.

Just a slightly off topic tidbit for David fans…. Mormons don’t believe in the inferno dogma — they view hell as separation from G_D. (I studied at BYU for a year).

Sorry if I’m out of sync with the thread. Didn’t have time to read all of the entries.

laureldj on April 10, 2008 at 8:11 am
155

So this is the last time I check the little box to watch a thread! : ] Sheesh my in box is overflowing!!!

Sweet Melissa on April 10, 2008 at 8:20 am
156

re: Druzilla

“Rickey, I’d like to point out you didn’t bash Castro for singing Hallelujah, despite Judeo-Christian overtones of its original lyric.”

I actually mentioned that in an earlier post. Jason Castro is by no means the first to sing something religious on this show. Carrie Underwood, Mandisa, Kristy Lee this season, etc. etc. That’s no big deal because the contestants choose their own songs. An individual has the choice to be as b latantly religious or secular as they like.

The difference is, when AI decides that they are going to use a self-proclaimed “worship song” as the finale of their biggest event of the year, it sends the message that the entire AI franchise and FOX is coming out to as a united front to endorse Christianity. Take out the word Jesus, there’s still “Savior,” “King,” “Power of Your name.”

That would be like if AI had a Gospel Week (which I would refuse to watch), and all contestants are not only force to sing despite their beliefs, but they have to try to sell it to a multifaith audience.

DJ Ryce on April 10, 2008 at 8:22 am
157

Somebody mentioned David getting the words wrong. I noticed that too. He may have trouble memorizing new lyrics. This could really hurt him in the finals if they have to sing new stuff.

I have a cousin who is a Fantastic vocalist, but he could never do something like Idol because his dyslexia (not saying David is dyslexic) would make it impossible for him to memorize material as quickly as they need to. It doesn’t detract from the fact that he has a phenomenal talent and beautiful voice though.

laureldj on April 10, 2008 at 8:39 am
158

As an Archie fan and staunch defender, I’ll say that he might have flubbed a single word in this song, but his many fans will easily forgive him. This week was unusual for all of them due to the amount of material — and you can criticize me for saying it, but Archie a lot of pressure because of the schooling. Yes, I know he signed up for this. Again, I’ll just reiterate that he has built a huge and loyal fanbase and we LOVE his solo.

In a non-Idol situation, he’ll have time to learn and practice his songs.

KH on April 10, 2008 at 8:58 am
159

The show was good tonight. I am a Christian and I enjoy this site tremendously! I love RENT. I love the song SHOUT TO THE LORD. I love diversity! Labels put people in a box so let’s open the box!! Thanks Rickey for a great site.

David Archuleta for the win!

watchfulone on April 10, 2008 at 9:27 am
160

As a Christian, I was highly surprised that they sang that song last night. And I don’t believe it was inappropriate, except maybe for those who don’t believe in God or follow the Christian faith. I can see where that would make it uncomfortable. Does anyone know how many missionaries there are in Africa witnessing and telling people about Jesus Christ? Not because they think whoever has HIV/AIDS is going to hell, but because majority of them will probably never have a chance to read the gospel. I read the Bible, and I believe it word for word. It says many times to not judge, for it is not our place as humans, and to love everyone just as Christ did. Not once does it say otherwise. I may not agree with homosexuality, but I would never be judgmental to someone because of it. And I definitely would never tell someone that because they have HIV/AIDS that that’s their punishment from God. I had an uncle who was gay that did die from AIDS about 10 years ago. One of my best friends is that of Buddhist faith. Not all Christians are the same. And as a Christian, it is frustrating to have people that think just because someone doesn’t worship like we do then they don’t deserve the same love that we give the ones who do worship like us.

hopedbell on April 10, 2008 at 9:33 am
161

laureldj – thanks for that insight into the Mormon belief on hell. It’s a much less dogmatic and literal view, and I for one, agree.

Emily – I think the question for you is whether you will choose to think for yourself or blindly follow what you have been told to believe by the church (as opposed to by Christ–they are not one in the same, despite the church’s insistence on it). This is clearly what you have so far chosen to do, since you are uninterested in facts, other people’s experiences, or even what might be your own individual views if you allowed yourself to have them. It is certainly much easier to simply select a pattern of thought and follow it, even in the face of overwhelming facts (and even your own experiences) that might contradict it.

Since no two people will ever follow the precisely-identical path, then the only possible path is an individual one.

Keep in mind that a church’s teachings are an interpretation of scripture (in other words, you are not following ONLY the words of Jesus, but the church’s interpretation of his words and the meaning of his life). The church is simply a group of humans just like you–their thoughts on what is correct in terms of reaching God is, at the end of the day, no more authoritative than yours.

Consider thinking for yourself. God is already in you, and you will hear the truth if you listen.

rascal on April 10, 2008 at 10:05 am
162

I just had to give my take on the bible gay issue. I should first preface this by saying that I am Christian and also have a degree in Christian studies(basically dissecting the whole bible in class). and I am also gay. First off, what is awesome about taking a class in biblical studies is you don’t give sermons you study the bible just as you would any other book. You look at the themes, HISTORICAL and CULTURAL context, and the audience the author was trying to reach. The Bible is considered the Word of God but it was inspired by him but written by men. Humans have innate bias. There is no way to eliminate it. There are a number of errors in the bible due to the fact that it was written almost 2000 years ago and we know more now. For example passages that say the four corners of the earth and the pillars of the earth. Back then they thought the earth was flat(corners) and was held up by pillars. The Bible also references the sun orbiting the earth.

todd_307 on April 10, 2008 at 10:32 am
163

“I am offended by Christianity period, because the mainstream belief is that anyone who doesn’t believe in it will burn forever in hell.”

Well this wins the straw man of the post award.

This is fundamentalist Christian teaching, which I stated already, is a minority among all Christianity. I implore you all who feel this to seek a more genuine understanding rather than having these unfounded and unfair perceptions of a religion of peace, love, and selflessness.

winwin07 on April 10, 2008 at 10:34 am
164

I will also add that the OT was written while the jews were in exile in Babylon and were being killed off. There for they had to populate to save the race therefore(NO gays! lol). Also, when the early church was forming they were trying to distance themselves from other religions such as pagans. Well the pagans would use sex in thier rituals and that sometimes included gay sex. So Paul dictated that it was a sin. Paul also gave people ammo to support slavery and the subjagation of women. Sorry for the long post and history lesson…lol

todd_307 on April 10, 2008 at 10:36 am
165

Think about that when you listen to the finale song “Shout to the Lord” which is one of the anthems of the born-again movement in the world — a movement which does not support contraception and is intolerant towards gays and people with HIV/AIDS.

I am so offended. I am so angry. American Idol should have known better and not inject religious undertones to their annual fund-raiser. Saving children in Africa and New Orleans has nothing to do with the Christian god. What were they thinking? Bah!

>>> Is this true? You hated Christian songs? Hey,
Shout to the Lord is a song not only for born again. It is for people who believe in God.
It has nothing to do with gays or any discrimination.

Of course saving Africa and New Orleans has something to do with God. Remember, God is our Savior?

tmth_07 on April 10, 2008 at 10:39 am
166

You need to chill Rickey. It was a SONG, which wasn’t written for any one group in particular but was adopted by a small splinter sect of mainline Christianity as their anthem. Sheesh! Get a life. If you get angry over a group of kids singing a gospel song why not just start a music ban of songs YOU feel are inappropriate or just simply dislike?

jcast on April 10, 2008 at 11:17 am
167

Kind of off topic…but with all the back and forth discussion in this thread (started reading this morning before I left for work…and just got back to it now and skipped to the end)…

…someone mentioned that Brooke didn’t have a solo in the “Seasons of Love” group song…nor the other “controversial song’ (y’all got me afraid to even mention it’s title) …perhaps she didn’t sing because of controversy with both of the songs…hmmm, just a thought.

BTW…my recorder cut off at 10pm, too…so I missed the performance. I thought I would be able to see/hear it here…but uh…err…I guess by the reactions mentioned in this thread/blog…that ain’t gonna happen!

feaqs on April 10, 2008 at 11:30 am
168

hey all — here’s some album cover art I made to replace the iTunes default if you want it.

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn218/rascalrg/da_albumcover.jpg

rascal on April 10, 2008 at 11:56 am
169

oops, sorry, wrong thread

rascal on April 10, 2008 at 11:58 am
170

I’m late to this discussion so don’t know if anyone’s still reading but wanted to add my opinion nonetheless. Personally, as I Christian I liked the song, have sang it many times in church. I was suprised that a secular TV show would use it though. Perhaps it was a calculated move to garner contributions from the evangelicals as the song from Rent might have been used to appeal to the gay/lesbian community? Perhaps not.

Anyway, being gay and Christian are not mutually exclusive. http://www.gaychristian.net/

mizkaaren on April 10, 2008 at 12:00 pm
171

Just wanted to put my two cents into this discussion… I understand that some non-Christians would be offended by this song choice but you do have to remember. Mostly everything on tv nowadays offends us.

sisjean7 on April 10, 2008 at 12:10 pm
172

^ Us Christians

sisjean7 on April 10, 2008 at 12:13 pm
173

I won’t go into this discussion too much, but my impression was the song was about love and thanks for a higher being, not just God. They changed the words a tad so it was clear they weren’t catering to just Christians. So, I don’t understand all the brouhaha. It’s a bit much and unnecessary.

Virginia5 on April 10, 2008 at 12:30 pm
174

Okay, I missed the finale so I went and found it on youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chXEraRnE4o) I found it to be a very moving performance, and I think that it was something that might move some people to take action. Remember there is still a Christian majority in this country, though they are spread among many denominational and nondenominational groups. If the purpse of IGB is to get people to give to these charities does it not make sense that they appeal to members fo that majority….just as perhaps doing “Seasons of Love” might appeal to a whole different group?

Just as many of you were offended by this performance there may have been others who were offended by performing a song about HIV/AIDS. We are all individuals and in an undertaking this large you MUST appeal to many different groups. Those differences are what make us as a society strong.

jbeeeb on April 10, 2008 at 12:46 pm
175

I am going to ask this again since we are talking about how the show was “offensive” to some.

Am I the only one who found the whole thing offensive because of the sexual innuendo and fowl language? Is this not a “Family” show?

Was this not supposed to be a show about and for Children?? Why mix all that crap with a show highlighting Children in Need? Doesn’t make sense to me and I found that more offensive then the whole Christianity vs Homosexual slant…

Sweet Melissa on April 10, 2008 at 1:26 pm
176

Why don’t we just face it Rickey…what you see is what you get (e.g. gay, hiv/aids) all these are part of the reality of life.

People that are hurts or offended from what other people think about gay thing or other stuff that may concern you – well, can’t do anything about it, it’s their belief – that is what they think then so be it.

I guess other people can’t handle the truth – remember TRUTH will set you free.

God is merciful and love, HE forgives!

ms_e on April 10, 2008 at 1:31 pm
177

I used to be a very intolerant and prejudiced person. I found these people’s lifestyle to be very objectionable and immoral. And the way they flaunt it, so in-your-face with their conduct, everywhere was quite disgusting to me.

I seriously got creeped out when I see or hear the around.

But as I got older, I learned to be tolerant and even though I still think their way of living is not totally appropriate, they are, like all of us, God’s children.

So now, I have very little problems with them and have learned to love the Christians.

heavyblow on April 10, 2008 at 1:41 pm
178

#29 jordanvera – well spoken.

I am glad that AI did do Shout to the Lord, although they censored the most important part which is the name of Jesus.

It’s unfortunate that Christians get stereotyped for how other Christians have misbehaved. (It is also unfortunate that Christians are persecuted by some people for just being Christians.) But it’s natural for people’s feelings to be affected by negative or positive experiences associated with certain groups of people or things. I’m a Christian & I love people that have lied, cheated, stolen, lusted, had gay relationships, etc. For crying out loud, I have done most all of those things! I still slip from time to time. I don’t know anyone who can say they haven’t. We as Christians must beware of the ’sin’ and the turmoil it creates, no doubt, & we as born again believers can’t continue on in these things.
However, it saddens me when radical Christian groups/churches preach hatred towards the people that do these things. Cuz they themselves can’t honestly say they are free from these things. We should love people just how they are.

Rickey, I have always loved your website & visit it often, although I’ve never commented on anything, but I just had to tell you this for the record. Whoever it was that said they were Christian that gave you such a negative experience, just remember that may have been just a cover for them or whatever, I don’t know. I myself have had a past negative experience going to a Christian church where they made me feel unwelcome. I am glad that (when I wasn’t looking for it at all) I found a church that is the total opposite, they loved me just how I was.

I am glad that you have gained more insight through the postings & feel a little bit better about things now! Keep up the good work!

jordana_marahah on April 10, 2008 at 1:54 pm
179

I re-registered here to applaud some of your posters for an actual intelligent discussion about Christianity and intolerance.

Rickey, if you’re still reading, I’m sorry about your mistreatment at the heavy-hands of some born-again, my-way or the highway types. Christainity (*my* version anyway) should be a loving and forgiving — not fire and hell and damnation. God is all forgiving. And that’s the end of the story.

Rascal, your posts about the Gay/Choice issue have been excellent. Unfortunately there are many closed minds — that believe what they’re told.

And, heavyblow — your calling a group of people “them” feels insulting to me. You’re in Rickey’s blog — I think there should be a small level of respect, at least.

wfowfo on April 10, 2008 at 1:57 pm
180

Meddie @108 Bravo and thank you for your posts. You said what I could not take time today to say: “for the life of me, i can’t fathom why people would think that sexuality is a choice? why would gay people “choose” to belong in a group that (unfortunately) remains so stigmatized in this day and age? most gay people develop their attraction towards the same gender at a very, very early age… which highly suggests that nurture is a huge (if not the sole) component in formulating one’s sexual orientation.”

Also @122 – “I have several gay friends with whom I have had deep discussions about their sexuality. They have gone through tremendous hardships because of people’s judgements towards them and endless pressures to “choose” the straight lifestyle. It is utterly obvious to me that it can’t be a choice. I repeat – love is love is love. People should not be scrutinzed for who they love as long as it’s mutual, respectful, and between consenting adults.”

Sorry to quote so much in post – but it was so far up the thread …

hesterprune on April 10, 2008 at 1:59 pm
181

heavyblow. as always. rocks.

rascal on April 10, 2008 at 2:01 pm
182

The following is not meant to be inflammatory. Just my opinions, you don’t gotta believe ‘em.

I am gay and I am a Christian. I really do, just like you, Rickey, have a predisposition toward the traditional church, for lack of a better term. That’s not God-based Christianity (saying AIDs is God’s punishment on homosexuals). It’s ignorant Christianity that breeds the same kind of ignorant hate that kills thousands and millions (Hitler comes to mind).

BUT! Not all Christians are that way! Not in the slightest! There’s more than you know that have open arms to anyone because all of our sins were paid for on the cross (no, you don’t have to believe that, I’m just saying what I believe). It’s all right there in the Bible. Is homosexuality a sin? Yes, but so is every other lust (and it’s not always lust, I know). Therefore no Christian should have a biased view on any particular sin. If not, they’re not following the Bible, and more likely hurting the cause of Christ more than anything.

Yeah, those people put me off. They are like poison.

Anywho, my thoughts are garbled n’ stuff, hope it makes sense…

Love & Peace

Paul on April 10, 2008 at 3:11 pm
183

thx, rascal. coming from you… (bow).

wfowfo, i don’t think you fully read my post. please re-read.

but if you don’t feel like scrolling back, i have true story (swear to God!) to tell you.

When I was in college… See… I’m a pretty good-looking chap (I don’t know why I said that but it just feels right)… I was naieve, missing friends and home… one afternoon in the school cafeteria there was this fellow who sat at the next table starting to befriend me. He was a little effeminate and slightly nerdy. He didn’t have that vibe of a person I’d normally would hang with… But I was new in the city and school and lonely and could use a friend.

We started to chat and he came off quite normal, so I didn’t feel threatened or anything. He then invited me out one evening. I thought nothing of it and said yes. We went to a local restaurant for an early dinner. I learned a little bit more about him and his background. And I soon realize that he probably wasn’t kind of a person I would be good friends with in the long run. Y’a know. Me and my terrible prejudice.

And after dinner, he invited me back to his apartment. I was like… hmmmm…. I don’t know. Deep down, I felt like he was trying to convert me! But then I said to myself. “Ugh! You are so paranoid and full of yourself. He might just want to be a friend.”

On the way to his apartment, he told me that there might be a few others coming over. And I was like. Great! Are these people just like him? You know. Birds of a feather…

When I got to his apartment and he opened the door, those friends were already there and right away I knew that my instinct was correct! I was so creeped out, I wanted to turn around and ran off. Because…

In front of my eyes there was this… this… group… more like an ORGY …. of young born-again Christians at their weekly group meeting. And I was their latest recruit!

It was quite traumatic. But I’m happy to have lived through it to tell the tale.

heavyblow on April 10, 2008 at 3:20 pm
184

Paul on April 10, 2008 at 3:30 pm
185

what I said was….

*looks at heavyblow and blinks*

Paul on April 10, 2008 at 3:31 pm
186

Okay now that I thought about it…

HAHAHAHAHAHAH NICE

Paul on April 10, 2008 at 3:32 pm
187

Liked the performance of the Rent song.
All the religions are factually wrong. This makes it easy to discard their immoral message with regard to gays and other minorities such as people afflicted with HIV/AIDS.
We have to quit trusting ancient myths and start believing in ourselves and our fellow human beings.

Hekerui on April 10, 2008 at 3:36 pm
188

heavyblow #183, you had me going. That was too funny.

cortezgirl on April 10, 2008 at 4:07 pm
189

ok heavyblow — great story.

I’m a little sensitive to the use of ‘they and them’ the way you used it…

I also hate it when a man calls his wife *the* wife — kinda like *the* car, *the* house, *the* cat, *the* dog, *the* wife … it’s something on of those scary dudes in Texas and the poor 14 year old girls would say, imo.

I’ll chill!

wfowfo on April 10, 2008 at 4:36 pm
190

I forget who posted maybe #167? Just so you know,
I purchased Shout to the Lord. Yes, Jesus is back in and Brooke has solos, is very clear and sings with incredible passion. I bet the question will be asked at the interview tomorrow how they felt about the song.

2kidsdogs on April 10, 2008 at 5:56 pm
191

I have enjoyed reading everyone’s comments.
Thank you.

2kidsdogs on April 10, 2008 at 5:57 pm
192

Wow, interesting to read all the posts. First let me say, I love Rickey.org!! Rickey, you do an excellent job with this site…secondly I would just like to say I am a Christian and was surprised that the song was sung as the final song, however, I enjoyed it. I was also offended by the post I read on here, then I was glad to read the clarification from Rickey. I agree with what many have already said about not putting Christians into a lump…I have gay and lesbian best friends and I feel like the minority at times! I just think there are many people who have bad experience with “Christians” or so they called themself, but you can say the same for anyone. That’s like me saying I have had bad experiences with ppl who are gay and lesbian, but it’s not because of their sexual orientaion. So anyway, loved the song! It appealed to some ppl and not to others, but that’s with anything in life. And the most controversial part of the show to me was the 5 second clip of CELINE DION!!! What the hell was that!!! It should’ve been atleast a 5 minute clip with her song “My Love” in the background lmao. Go figure, I’m a Celine Fan =P

CelineFan4Life on April 10, 2008 at 6:03 pm
193

Heavyblow @ 177, I didn’t see it comin’. Excellent!

aprylette on April 10, 2008 at 7:03 pm
194

Rickey,
I totally understand your anger and WHY. Your clarification sure made a difference because I was pretty upset with your comment (I am a born again evangelical Christian). I have also witnessed hypocrisy in evangelical born again circles. I watched a church I belonged to come apart by judgmental intolerant, and unforgiving people. And it was over something really STUPID. I decided long time ago that I would let God be God, and me be me. I wasn’t put on this earth to point fingers at people pointing out sin and telling others how bad they are. There are ways to love people without endorsing choices they make. Whereas I’ve never been disappointed with God, I cannot say that about people. People will always disappoint us, even the most charitable and loving of Christians. Rickey, your site is AWESOME and a lot of fun. Keep up the good work and know that I love you just the way you are. )

Fe on April 10, 2008 at 7:17 pm
195

Everyone keeps mentioning that Archie forgot his words?? In which song?? Seasons of Love or Shout to the Lord? I didnt even notice – and I always stare at him… I’m lost – can someone tell me which song and when it was that he forgot the lyrics??

jennjenn on April 10, 2008 at 7:18 pm
196

#183 – Heavy Blow – that was so funny. You had me going there! (so did they convert you?)

aifan2boot on April 10, 2008 at 7:23 pm
197

I hear you Rickey! Thank you for pointing it out. I’m top manager in small non-profit, who fights with AIDS in one state. And I have seen a lot of cases (with children too, btw). I’ll put link to your comment on our website.

Sanjayachoice on April 10, 2008 at 8:34 pm
198

i know this musical like the back of my hand and as much as i love david archuleta with all my heart he flubed his collins solo

S.C.A on April 10, 2008 at 9:45 pm
199

Reply to #190: 2kidsdogs & #175:Sweet Melissa

2kidsdogs: thanks for the update about Brooke actually singing on the studio version…and I haven’t read the latest blog yet from tonights elimination show…I did get a chance to hear the “reprise” of “STTL”…wonder how that went over with many of our friends here…I guess I’ll see soon when I get to the blog.

Sweet Melissa: no, you weren’t the only one offended by the language…I finally got a chance to see the performance of ‘STTL” from last night on YouTube…and the video clip included Ben Stiller’s foul languaged laced performance at the end of the show (though bleapped…it was still clear as to what he was saying). I found it totally inappropriate…esepcially to end such an auspicious show with such UGLY language!

feaqs on April 10, 2008 at 10:11 pm
200

Boy, I was surprised that they did a repeat performance tonight of the song, but it sounded so much better (everyone’s voices was so clear) and they said “My Jesus” tonight! I guess enough Christians complained or something. Wow.

I agree with some of the others that last night was beautiful ending with STTL and then to have Ben Stiller and his foul mouth afterwards was uncalled for and a left a bad taste in how to end a beautiful show.

aifan2boot on April 11, 2008 at 12:29 am
201

I’m with you, Rickey. I was disgusted that FOX would use the Idol stage to force their ’state religion’ down the throats of their viewers. They should leave the gospel music to the churches and spare us the Jesus crap.

DarylO on April 11, 2008 at 2:12 am
202

Um, DarylO?

As a Christian, there are plenty of things on television that I find revolting, like glorified rape, greed, murder, victimization, programs and music that perpetuate te objectification of woman, bigotry, and gay-bashing.

But I don’t see as many people as I’ve seen on this thread in a given year, either Christian or non-Christian, who take the time, energy, anger or concern to voice their opinions about THOSE things. No, all of that so-called passion is used to bash on a TV show for playing a song.

As for your post, it’s one thing to have your own opinion about what Fox is or isn’t doing. It’s another to insult nd disrespect the God of a fellow person’s worship.

The way you even remotely connect Jesus with “crap” implies that you somehow are definitively in a position of knowing all things to make a brazen assessment regarding the son of God whom many believe died for our sins – or you’re a clueless moron. Which is it?

Survey says…?

StellaMartin on April 11, 2008 at 4:40 am
203

Rickey, you’re doing a good job in moderating this thread. and i love how u present your conspiracy theory.

Please don’t be offended by the song. everyone has their own reason of doing things & i think we should just respect each other & respect freedom of speech. Just think positively. I think it’s the right thing to do since it’s a very positive week, right?

Well, forgiveness is so expensive these days. I’m sure our life will be so much more beautiful if we all can learn to forgive.

anyway, keep up the good work, Rickey!

serendipity on April 11, 2008 at 5:28 am
204

Thanks everyone for the compliments. Glad you enjoyed the anecdotes.

wfowfo, I was making a point with #177. I was parrotting some of Christians’ condescending tone toward the gays. That post wasn’t literal.

aifan2boot #196… Did they convert me?… it was college… we all dabbled in college, right?

heavyblow on April 11, 2008 at 3:29 pm
205

Heavyblow: #183, that exact story happened to me too when I was a student at the University of Toronto. The trouble with some of these groups is: they have some of the best looking guys out recruiting.

daisawesome on April 12, 2008 at 1:21 pm
206

daisawesome,

haha. you and i are bonded.

apparently, it’s very widespread. it’s creepy, this whole manipulating recruitment. ppl should do something about this…

maybe NBC should do a show called “To Catch a Born Again Predator.”

heavyblow on April 13, 2008 at 11:52 am
207

Why is there even this much discussion on this?

American idol is supposed to be a television show representing America, which is, last time I checked, a melting pot of Christians, Hindus, Muslims, Atheists, Agnostics, and every other choice you could possibly find. Where are the songs on Buddha? Where are the songs celebrating every other religion? I think it’s not a matter on inclusiveness, but exclusiveness.
You cannot possibly choose to sing a group song with heavily aimed Christian values on a national television show which has, in the past, aimed to include everyone in the country as it’s fans and supporters. It’s just going to make people uncomfortable if they do not share those values or sentiments.
Or make them turn off the television on their favorite show.
which is exactly what I did.

MissMonk on April 13, 2008 at 1:20 pm
208

Yup, we’re a melting pot, founded on freedom OF religion, not FROM religion…your, mine, or anyone else’s. So just what’s your beef?

I’ve also seen large groups of people swaying and singing to tunes that would be considered secular humanism, but I’m not getting freaked out over it. I’ve seen programming (on any given hour, I might add) that glorify rape, murder, molestation, any sort of objectification or victimization, drug addiction, torture, greed, bigotry, Christian-bashing, gay-bashing, elitism, you name it…there’s much more.

Where is the indignation about those programs that air every week or day about those? Where are the righteous protests on this or any other thread about atrocities that are aired around the clock?

Why does Jesus offend a fair number of you while you’re seemingly lost on the television programming that glorifies hate and murder?

Interesting. I hear a lot of talk about tolerance, but don’t see a lot of walk from those offended ones…

At least MissMonk had it right about turning off the TV, which is exactly what I do a lot of the time – or turn the channel to alternate programming. I don’t expect a singing competition to meet all of my religious representational needs. Anyone else who expects an entertainment show such as AI to do just that needs to rethink some things…maybe a lot of things.

Bottom line, though, I find it hard to not get weary of people bashing Christianity to exalt their own insecurities. Rather, practice some of that this-is-a-melting-pot mentality your own selves. If Christians are expected to celebrate everyone else’s differences, why shouldn’t that work both ways for protesting non-Christians, too?

Seriously.

StellaMartin on April 13, 2008 at 2:07 pm